"Hi Chris and friends at The Lions Den,
I was thinking you should write an article on how to deal with the boyfriend of a potential girlfriend or crush in social situations.
Imagine the following scenario: You know this girl from work or school. You like her. She likes you. You flirt with each other. The only problem? She has a long term boyfriend. Or alternatively, you meet a girl who has brought her boyfriend with her at a party.
Either way, a social situation arises in which she presents her boyfriend to you (for example at a party to test you, or out of pure coincidence).
How do you handle the boyfriend? How do you demonstrate that you are a more dominant, superior, a better man, and that she would be better off with you?
Hope you consider this!"
Hehehehe.... This will be fun ya?..... Simply put this bro is asking how to successfully snatch or steal someones girlfriend.
Now wait wait ... before you go all holier than thou on him (or me), lets remember that its a free world when it comes to dating and relationships. you cant stop or judge a man for trying.
However, is this possible to do?... Sure. Is it something you can consistently pull off? ... well, let's just say.. count whatever your normal success rate is at picking up, and reduce that a little bit because now you're trying to out-compete the girl's boyfriend; however, if you can pull this off with a girl who wants you to steal her from her man (we'll talk about these girls and why they want this in a bit), in this case you can actually achieve a higher degree of consistency at snatching... assuming you handle logistics properly.
But before we discuss doing this, let's talk a little about the scenario itself, and any potential moral implications... because I don't have fun making good people cry, and I hope you don't either.
And that brings us to the Moral Angle.
IS IT RIGHT OR.....
My general stance on sleeping with "attached" women.
there is ALWAYS going to be SOME man who's going to be upset that you slept with some woman if he finds out about it. He might be a boyfriend; he might be a husband; he might be a guy in her friend zone who's been "working on her" for weeks or months or years now; he might be a guy who's taken her on three dates; he might be her friend with benefits who wants the relationship to be something more. He might be her ex-boyfriend or ex-husband.
Someone, somewhere, has called dibs on her... and he's going to be furious that you slept with "his" woman.
However, usually, if a woman is sleeping with you... she doesn't see herself as HIS woman. She views herself as "A" woman... but as to whom she "belongs", her opinion is generally, "I belong to ME, and I will do whatever I want with whomever I want to do it."
Obviously, there's a bit of a disconnect, then, between what SHE thinks she's allowed to do with herself, what HE thinks she's allowed to do with herself... and what YOU think she's allowed to do with herself (and with you)... i hope i am communicating.
And you're going to have to choose whom you're teaming up with: this girl who wants to sleep with you, or this guy who wants her not to.
AVOIDING REGRETSIf you are a sexy man, good at turning women on and creating sexual tension, of course any woman who sleeps with you is going to want to sleep with you, then and there in the moment.
If she didn't want to right then, she wouldn't do it.
If you're aiming to be morally responsible, however, the question you ought to be asking yourself is, "How is she going to feel about having slept with me later on down the line?"
Almost every girl who's ever found out about an affair says the same thing to her partner: "It was a mistake. I never should have done it."
Yet, many times this is said without it being meant (or, occasionally, the woman will just spitefully say, "Yes, I did it - and I'm GLAD I did it!").
If she's going to be looking back on her night with you and smiling to herself, feeling a bit lighter on her feet, a bit happier in her heart, and a bit more relieved in her loins, you've done a good thing for her.
However, if she's going to be blaming herself, cursing herself, and sorry she did it, that's when you put the brakes on sleeping with a girl in any circumstance, attached or not. In this case, if she's going to feel bad about herself for sleeping with you because she genuinely loves her guy, or because her identity is as a "good girl" and this causes her an inordinate amount of cognitive dissonance, it's better to scrub the lay and throw her back into the pond.
How do you recognize attached women who are going to regret sleeping with you later? Across the board, they:
Are sexually inexperienced (experienced women who stray from
monogamous relationships simply aren't bothered by it - if they
are, they don't let it happen)
Are not very sexual women (no sexy smiles, eye contact, heavy
flirtation, seductive behavior, etc.)
Are genuinely in love with their boyfriends (usually in the
first six months to a year of their relationships... even inexperienced
girls past a year, if they are sleeping with you, usually are doing
this because they've gotten an "itch" and don't feel bad about it)
Are putting up a wall of resistance to sex when you try
to escalate physically and take them to bed
A rule of thumb for assessing whether to proceed with an attached girl: if you hit a huge wall trying to move things forward with her, and she isn't overly sexy or sensual, and clearly is young and inexperienced, it's best to call it off, even if you know you could get it, because she'll end up having a hard time and going through some identity-level difficulties not long after.
Otherwise, though, she knows what she's doing, and if she doesn't get it from you, she's going to get it from someone else (and, the way it typically works with women who sleep with other men while in relationships, she's probably going to be getting it from you AND someone else)
KarmaThere are two kinds of "karma", I believe:
- Guilty karma
- Behavioral karma
The second is what you get if you behave in a certain antisocial way that gains you some advantages, at other (usually long-term) costs. Extreme psychopaths are a good example of this kind of "karma" - they're very, very good at maximizing their short-term outcomes... you will never meet anyone better at getting the best possible short-term outcome as a psychopath (basically, someone who is unable to feel the emotions of others, and thus views other people completely without a shred of empathy, simply as objects to be used to best ability for his own benefit). The tradeoff for a psychopath though is that he's terrible at planning for the long-term and unable to properly consider long-term consequences of his actions - it's why he's so good at the short-term; short-term is his sole focus, unlike those of us trying to juggle the here-and-now with what lies ahead. As a result, psychopaths have frequent blowups and falling outs in their relationships long-term... again, something some might call karma.
However, these are two very different kinds of "karma": one comes from guilt, which is based on conscience; the other comes from the consequences of one's same actions that generated the benefit. karma is supposed to "punish" him for - for instance, long-term negative effects of positive short-term outcomes (spend your money on a new laptop today and feel great; have no money for food the whole next month and go hungry).
Assuming you have some measure of empathy, the kind of karma that poses the biggest threat to you here is that of guilt; so, if you feel guilty about sleeping with an attached woman, don't do it.
Personally, I feel no guilt if the woman clearly wants it and has no problems with it. I don't know the guy, nor why one man is not enough for her; I don't know the nature of their relationship, any "arrangements" they might have, or anything else, nor do I care to know. If I spent too much time trying to guess what a hundred different people might think about a girl and I sleeping together and if any of them would be hurt or offended or whatnot, I'd go crazy before I ever slept with anyone.
However, if I know the girl is going to feel bad about sex with me, that's one I cannot stand. I've had a few women I have inadvertently hurt - not girls with boyfriends, but girls who simply had the wrong expectations about sex with me, and/or I had not done a good enough job of setting the right ones for this. Those still weigh on my conscience, and believe it or not, have come back to bite me again through my own guilt-altered behavior. I'd advise you to avoid at all costs anything that might hurt a girl if you can do it, even if purely for your own selfish good (though hopefully for hers, too).
Whether due to your own guilty conscience or, in the case where you are lacking in the empathy department, your short-term-only focus on leading your life, karma's a bitch.
And she doesn't like being ignored.
So keep an eye on her, and try not to make her angry.
THE ART OF STEALING
The first thing to realize about women you steal from under the boyfriend's nose: they know exactly what they are doing, and they get off on having you cuckold their men.
It took me a while to realize it. I cut my teeth at Indulge bar around a girl like this, and nearly stole her right in front of her boyfriend, but backed off when I saw how hurt and angry he was and assumed she was probably just too drunk and not being herself.
Later, after much more interaction with women like this, I realized she knew what she'd been doing.
Why do women enjoy letting other men cuckold their men with them, and how do you steal a girl like this when she presents herself to you?
Screening, and Power PlaysAbout six months after I got a Job, I met an incredibly spunky, sexy young (but older than me) girl, with whom I had a very good vibe going on. We traded numbers; and she invited me out to a pool get together of sorts a week or two later.
I showed up, and it was her, her best friend, the best friend's boyfriend... and her boyfriend.
I was flummoxed (don't bother checking) and disappointed. Also, somewhat stumped. Here was this girl I'd met, a total wild, crazy sexpot, and... there was her mild-mannered boyfriend.
Young, preppy haircut.
Real warm, friendly, nice guy demeanor.
Turned out she was living in his house, and driving a car he'd bought her.
All right, that's just weird, I thought. I don't know what the deal is with this.
I hadn't been expecting it, so I sort of backed off. I ended up making friends with the other couple, and learned from them later that the girl I'd met used to always introduce men she'd met to her boyfriend before she slept with them...(see amebo) and then sleep with those men immediately after.
Whoops!; I'd botched it. I had kind of, sort of, felt like that might be what was going on... but it was just so strange and bizarre for early 2009 me. I wrote it off and said, "Nah... my read's gotta be wrong. That'd just be weird."
Of course, as I started hanging out with that other couple, the girl, who'd initially been rather cold to me,(cuz her man was there perhaps) started heating up.
Then up, and up.
I debated about whether to sleep with this friend of the class sexpot, but I had a girlfriend staying at my place temporarily. It got to the point that we'd be out at a dinner, just the four of us, and the other girl would be reaching across under the table rubbing my feet with hers.
I realized then - and I've seen and confirmed since - that some attached women parade their boyfriends in front of you before moving ahead with you for two reasons:
- A power play. They simply feel powerful knowing that their boyfriend or husband is right there, right in front of the man they are going to sleep with later, and he probably suspects it, but there is nothing he can do about it. If he accuses them, they'll deny, and act insulted he could even think such a thing, shaming him back into grudging silence. Why do they do this? Usually because the guy was too controlling, and they are "punishing" him by making his worst fear happen, right in front of him. Obviously, the women who do this are pretty vindictive people themselves, too - but they'll be all feminine charms and grace with you.
A screening tool.
The other reason women do this? If
you can hang with her and her man, and still be cool, and not crack,
and still move things forward with her ANYWAY after this, in a cool, seductive
way... you're just about the sexiest man she's ever met. Most
guys don't have the balls to stay cool and pull this off (like I didn't
early on... in fact, I wasn't able to pull this off until late 2008) -
they either get moralistic about it, or second-guess themselves, or are
intimidated by the fact that the girl has a boyfriend. So all the
lesser men screen themselves out, and the girl is just left with the
coldest, hardest, most bad boy players there are, who
aren't fazed one bit by the boyfriend,
and the sex is about 20 times more exciting for her because she knows
how hard these guys have been screened and tested... they are the manliest men, with the best genes imaginable. And she cums
hard during sex (Relax...am not about to write a romantic novel).
And don't think that a girl who starts touching you and escalating with you when her boyfriend isn't looking has simply fallen prey to your charms... she has, but if it wasn't you, it would've been somebody else. You're good, in that you got her, and not someone else, but you didn't cause her to start looking around for someone to meet in front of her boyfriend... she did that herself.
How to Steal a Girl from Under Her Boyfriend's NoseSo now you know she's not some innocent, easily-swayed and clueless little girl, but rather a sharp, cunning fox, out on the prowl, and knowing exactly what she's doing... and whom she's looking for.
How do you steal a girl like this from her (probably controlling, over-protective, and perhaps unfaithful himself) boyfriend?
Here, there are four (4) keys:
the name of the game here. Remember that as the lover, you are 100%
expendable. Threaten to cause an ounce of drama for her, and she will
have zero qualms about dissing you to
preserve her social standing. That means you must be civil with the
boyfriend; you must not create problems; you must not flirt too overtly with her in front of
the boyfriend or any friends of hers who are not completely on board
with her plans (typically, her closest friends only). Some girls are
okay texting with you; some will ask you not to text them, because
their boyfriends will see it and check (the further along into full-on
rebellion the girl is, the fewer qualms she'll have about you texting
her to arrange dates or set up logistics). On the plus side, you can
propose things with her fast
(but still smooth), because you won't have much time to do this, or
much free opportunity, and she recognizes this and will conspire with
you to do that (e.g., sneak out back with you, off to the side of the
bar, meet by the bathrooms in 5 minutes, etc.).
this is more social dominance
than it is physical
dominance, or even verbal
dominance. That means you know how
to deal with it if the boyfriend attempts to tool you, you
follow the Law of Least Effort ( Basically means that the person who *appears to put the
least amount of effort out, while getting the largest amount of effort
returned to him by others, comes across as the most socially powerful.
*Note the italics around the word “appears” in that bolded section. We aren’t necessarily talking about the person who
is actually, literally trying the least, but rather the person who is able to accomplish the most with the appearance of putting in the least amount of work.
)in what you do and visibly appear more dominant than he does by comparison. And above all, you're clearly not intimidated by him. If you go overboard, however, and attempt to shame him, mock him, or intimidate him, you will force the girl to defend him so as not to appear to be too openly moving against him, which usually dooms your cause. So don't attack; simply look stronger and better in your own space, and deftly deflect any attempts to belittle you that he throws your way.
focus clearly needs to be on stealing away with her, meeting up with
her later, or otherwise finding time to connect with her, soon. It's very okay (and often
advisable) to make it a "conspiracy" between the two of you; each of
you know the other is playing a role in front of the boyfriend, but
behind the scenes, the two of you are working together to try to bring
yourselves together without his knowing it as soon as possible. Keep
your focus on this, and don't get confused into thinking your focus is
to dominate the boyfriend socially, or win over the friend group, or
anything like this. Losing focus kills you here, because attached women
are looking for focused men
who move fast, and their attraction tends to expire fast
for any man who doesn't meet these standards.
... must be handled. You'll find that attached women can often be more
down for wild and unconventional sex logistics than many single
women will - this is because they have zero considerations of
maintaining a "good girl" image with you (obviously, at least for you,
they are not "good" girls), because they feel the very real time
constraints they are working against (to get you inside of them before
the boyfriend starts looking for them), and because the fact that the
two of you are uniting in such a delicious conspiracy against the
oppressive and stifling boyfriend/husband is so damn exciting for them. Almost anything
will do here - bathrooms, cubby holes (nkoro), alleyways. I have a friend who
met a girl outside a nightclub, mad at her boyfriend, and immediately
pulled her behind his car and had sex with her then and
there, not four minutes after meeting her. She then went back into the
club to go rejoin her boyfriend, a big smile on her face.
... oh, and in case any of this is leaving you freaked out about your OWN girlfriend(s), would write something soon to help you be on your guard:
Being the Other GuyPersonally, I prefer not to ask women about their relationship statuses. If she has a boyfriend, I'd rather not know. All I want to know is that she and I are two people who like each other, so let's go do what we'd like to do with one another. If she has a man she's promising exclusivity to... that's her business.
So, I do my best to stay off the topic of current relationships with girls. Past relationships are okay if you do them right... but be careful of digging too much here, because some girls will start feeling like they need to "confess" their currents to you if you do. Better simply not to know - then when you get the phone call from the hurt or angry partner or spouse later (as I have, at times), you can honestly tell the guy, "Hey man, I had no idea. She seemed cool to me."
Wrapping up, is this okay? Is it okay to sleep with an attached girl?
Everyone's of his own mind about this. I personally don't like sleeping with women if I meet their boyfriends or husbands and the guy is a legitimately nice guy (like that sweater-vest guy the girl was seeing... from what the couple she introduced me to told me, her boyfriend had rescued her out of poverty and helped her kick a drug problem - doesn't pay to be a white knight, fellas. I think he found out years later about the gangbangs she was having with her ex and his drugheads in Lagos, kicked her out, and took the car back, if memory serves).
But if the guy's clearly controlling and not a nice guy? If it's what the girl wants, I don't have qualms with it these days.
Just make sure she's not innocent and head-over-heels with him - but this is pretty easy to tell. Don't ruin something pure - if it's already ruined though, and she's just looking for some release, this is a gray area, but it's one where I feel it's pretty safe saying you're probably okay from a moral standpoint of just going for it. She wants it; she's going to get it somewhere; and the guy knows it's going on, and probably knows he drove her to it, too.
But if you have a choice? Just don't even ask her status. If you don't ask, you don't have to steal a girl from under her boyfriend's nose... then you're just picking up a girl who likes you, and the fact that some jealous guy is over there burning daggers into the back of your skull is irrelevant; you like her, she likes you, and that's about as pure as love, sex, and romance get.
And i'll talk to you again soon... (i hope)
Kindly use the facebook comments instead of the default one thanks.
www.chriskingleonhart.com (THE LIONS DEN)
Twitter and Instagram: @chrisxleonhart
Facebook Page: Chrisking Leonhart